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Mark Atwood
fallenpegasus
fallenpegasus
For everyone grasping at Shrub's "failure" to stop 9/11...
http://www.steveverdon.com/archives/2004_04.html#001286

imagine if on September 10th, 2001, President George W. Bush, citing increased "chatter" about an attack on the United States decided to shut down all airports nationwide. Furthermore, in an address to the nation he announces that Osama Bin Laden is behind the threats and has decided to invade Afghanistan and overthrow the Taliban. Can you imagine the response?
That would have prevented 9/11 (although it might have become 10/11 or 10/21, or some other date). However, I think the response would have been a very strong belief that George W. Bush had gone insane and was power mad. Further, there would be many calls for impeachment/removal on the grounds of mental instability or some such.
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Comments
From: flying_pegasus Date: April 9th, 2004 08:41 pm (UTC) (Link)

Congrats.

You’re the president of the United State. I voted you in to office or my imaginary office. Just for you.

As your now The President of the United State. Sir we’re under attack and The World Trade Center took a hit and all those people die for no reason. What is your Orders Sir! What we going to do? The weight and pressure is on your shoulders, I'm waiting for justice because my family died in that. I'm civilian of the United State of America and this is my home. I’m waiting Mr. President why did they come on our soil and hurt the ones that we loved and never will we see them again. What are you going to do about this, let the people that are responsible walk?

You know Mr. President they aren't coming on our soil to clean up or rebuild or maybe give us their sympathy of apologies. I'm waiting for answer Mr. President it your call. Disappoint us we might kill you. Because The American People at that time wanted one thing, which was Justice...Don't say it wouldn't happen. Why did he got elected, you really think Mr. Clean Galore would had the Balls and war attitude to go in there. Or he is going to sing Cum-Bi-Ya my love. Live in Peace, you want a flower little girl, smell the essence and let by gone be gones. Love and happiness my love, don't be mad we going to died some time... Might as well be at 9/11 or whatever it might be happening.

We knew something was up before The President Bush took office, we had guys in there and out, you seen Red October or Red Dawn with Sean Connery the Actor for Russia portray his country cause he knew it was Wrong. Let say the same thing happen, but we didn't have the proof and we had bunch of Cry wolfs of Treats. Or not enough knowledge of the exact moment it was going to happen. Or perhaps we didn't know.

Now it did happen...I'm waiting Mr. President and I got gun to your head, Sir! You can't deliver what we want as Americans that just lost their love ones. I'll kill you and find a President that has the balls to go in there give the American people what they want....which was Justices one why or another. Don't Say Mr. President it wouldn't happen to you and you can hide around your Secrete Service all you want....It just take one sniper that had her or his sister, brother , father and Mother or Fire Fighter or Police officer that died that day and have their REVENGE and to kill you....For their own justice.

So Mr. President...want you gonna do? The American people have your forehead and their Rights to Bare Arms pointed RIGHT at you!

Sorry if I’m so irritated and over exaggerated but it's the facts – JACK! The American People would assassinate the President of the United STATE of America if we didn’t get what we wanted. NOW we do have War! YOU and all the other people are Complaining about it …It just so funny how as Human Beings become so (What’s the Word for It.) AH! GREEDY Little Snarling Little Bitches, I think! We either KILL or Be Ill by your Action.

I for one would like to know Mr. President of the United State of the LIVE JOURNAL what are your orders Sir!
docorion From: docorion Date: April 9th, 2004 09:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, I suspect folks on 'my side' of the political spectrum were hoping for an honest 'we didn't see it coming, and we weren't focused on terrorism until the planes hit the WTC (which would incline me to like the man better, although I still wouldn't vote for him), which I think is the truth. I agree with you that had the president (whoever he was) grounded planes on the basis you describe, he would have been impeached within a week, unless he'd been able to produce the hardest of evidence to back him up, like actual confessing hijackers.

(Gods and thunders, I agree with you? Have we now heard everydamnthing, or what? :-)
sinanju From: sinanju Date: April 10th, 2004 12:24 am (UTC) (Link)
I think we _did_ get "we didn't see it coming" from the administration. What we aren't getting is anyone willing to fall on his sword over it, preferably Rice, Cheney, Ashcroft and Bush--which is what a lot of people pointing fingers over this issue really want (imho). But that's not going to happen.

docorion From: docorion Date: April 10th, 2004 07:01 am (UTC) (Link)
OK, then ask the logical followup question-why not? We have the biggest and most sophisticated intelligence system on the planet, theoretically-why did we fail to know about this?

And yes, I will agree that that particular failure may in fact extend back to the Clinton administration; the intelligence community has consistently failed to adjust from the Cold War, which requires more human intelligence, and different analysis talents than the Cold War required. Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II have all failed to reform the CIA and FBI in the appropriate direction; NSC has taken a lead here, probably more because NSC is under direct Presidential control. CIA and FBI are not, and have their own entrenched bureaucracy.
sinanju From: sinanju Date: April 10th, 2004 01:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think the short answer is two-fold: 1) intelligence operations are always about groping blindly in the dark, and inevitably you're going to be working with incomplete information, and 2) as Rice testified, we have (or had, to some degree) structural barriers to information sharing between domestic and foreign intelligence agencies for long-standing and valid reasons. And anywhere you have such barriers, things are going to fall through the cracks sometimes.

I'd agree that the "blame Clinton" crowd are no more right than the "blame Bush" crowd. Neither administration had hard evidence of a specific, impending attack; neither administration took all possible precautions. Neither administration _could_ have done so without paying a huge political price (if they could have done it at all, under the existing laws), and there was no compelling reason to think it was necessary.

I'm disappointed that some heads didn't roll in the intelligence community over this (and still haven't). But even if our intel community was 100% on the ball, we're still going to miss stuff--because the enemy is going to be working just as hard to keep us in the dark. And sometimes, no matter how hard we work to uncover their schemes, they're going to succeed.
From: flying_pegasus Date: April 11th, 2004 08:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

Congrats your Move

OK, then ask the logical followup question-why not? We have the biggest and most sophisticated intelligence system on the planet, theoretically-why did we fail to know about this?

Good question – Why Not!

Probably because only our today animals or pets are tag with sophisticated intelligence system, the Avis Chip. …we as human being don’t where bar codes behind our necks and have some hover craft to monitor our every move.

How do you suppose this Sophisticated intelligence system suppose monitor our every move. Especially foreigners that came in to our country on work or school visa…you tell me how this intelligence system is supposed to monitor their every move. . You tell me how come we can’t find one adducted kid of the day of he/she been kid napped.

Now my knowledge is if those guys hi – jack those planes same to me as being kid napped. Now let say, we did spot them….then what. President would order them to be shot down on contact. Verses on the factual numbers of deaths that would occur after the order and I bet that the American people would complain like snipping little brats on …Oh how cruel can the president be, especially when the plane is head right in to the WWC.

Passengers of the Air Plane vs World Trade Center….Your now the presidents what are your orders sir…who do I shoot down first Sir!

Logically the answer is in front of your face on which you pull the trigger on. Would you really want to be the President or the Guy behind the Cock Pit?
fallenpegasus From: fallenpegasus Date: December 28th, 2005 10:19 am (UTC) (Link)
We have the biggest and most sophisticated intelligence system on the planet, theoretically-why did we fail to know about this?

Here we are, 20 months later. That very "biggest and most sophisticated intelligence system" has been tuned to look for future 9/11's. And what's happening. People are screaming and going bananas about "unchecked Presidential Power", soley because Echalon has been so retuned.

You can't have it both ways... and demanding both ways makes me inclined not to give a single inch.
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 28th, 2005 11:41 am (UTC) (Link)
Thing is, I don't *want* it both ways. I will risk terrorist attacks to keep my freedoms. If it means I have a higher risk of death, or my loved ones have a higher risk of death-so be it. One thing we as a nation have done wrong in the face of terrorism is to *be terrified*. Your chance of dying on the roads of America is *much* higher than the risk of dying in a terorist incident-yet we bend and twist to find ways to avoid terrorism, abrogating our precious civil rights in the process, while doing comparitvely little about much greater numbers of deaths from many other causes. What's with that?

And I still don't like unchecked Presidential power. Even if my guy was President, I wouldn't like it.
weofodthignen From: weofodthignen Date: April 9th, 2004 09:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm very much afraid to say--the most diplomatic and polite response I can come up with is "So?"

How many thousands of lives were lost? And if they suspected the Pentagon was also a target as well as the WTC, how much worse does that make it if they had such a suspicion?

Heck, my first reaction was "And why hasn't he been?!"

M
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