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Mark Atwood
Some hells are not deep enough, and some causes are utterly unforgivable for not opposing
Lifted from this USENET post.

The work Koba the Dread is mainly a biography of Stalin. It begins with a reference to The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine, like so:

Here is the second sentence of Robert Conquest's The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine:

We may perhaps put this in perspective in the present case by saying that in the actions here recorded about twenty human lives were lost for, not every word, but every letter, in this book.

That sentence represents 4,011 lives. The book is 411 pages long.
8 comments or Leave a comment
juuro From: juuro Date: February 6th, 2004 10:45 pm (UTC) (Link)
We, the Finnish, have mixed feelings seeing American indignation at Stalin.

fallenpegasus From: fallenpegasus Date: February 6th, 2004 10:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
How nice for you.

I have a button I like wearing wereever there are "useful idiots" (Stalin's term, not mine) in proximity.

"The Kulaks were my comrades, comrade."

(There are more than a few unreconstructed Useful Idiots still in the Seattle area...)
juuro From: juuro Date: February 6th, 2004 11:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
In 1939, Stalin's Soviet Union attacked Finland, in an attempt of military invasion. The western world commented "That's awful," sent reporters, and most definitely sent no supplies, let alone military assistance,

A few years later, the western leaders, in effect, told Stalin "you're welcome to take over Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and make the east European countries puppet states" and only for a fluke Finland did not share the fate of Estonia.

Finland did appeal to UK and USA to defend herself against Soviet Union. At the time it was more opportune for USA to join sides with Communism.
fallenpegasus From: fallenpegasus Date: February 6th, 2004 11:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
An action that is today referred to as "allying with the forces of darkness against the forces of evil".

In 1939, there were far too many Useful Idiots in the governments of western Europe and in the US (including a US President), who more than a little bit sympathized with the Glorious Collective Vision, and who truly believed that personal economic freedom was a destructive dead end.

I would throw them into the same Hell that I would shrivel Stalin's soul in, and call their screams music.
docorion From: docorion Date: February 7th, 2004 03:13 am (UTC) (Link)


Consider that you may judge the leaders a *bit* harshly. In 1939, Roosevelt would have been roundly tossed out of office had he even suggested any kind of intervention on behalf of any European power, country, people, etc. It was a *very* isolationist time. Think about the fact that when we did declare war, Germany was an afterthought to the American people, even though the war planners got it mostly right with 'Germany first'. (My father, who grew up in that time, and was subject to it's propaganda, has a picture of himself in the family driveway (in Everett, MA), sitting behind a toy machine gun. He has commented about that picture, saying 'I killed millions of Japs with that gun'. He lived on the East Coast, and *still*, the 'Japs' were the enemy, not the Germans, largely).

So in my opinion, the people you want to condemn are not, necessarily, all in government (although I'm sure there were a bunch of the people you describe, mind). The collective soul of America was not prepared to go to war until after Pearl Harbor; that's when it stopped being 'their war', and started being 'our war'.
juuro From: juuro Date: February 7th, 2004 07:38 am (UTC) (Link)
However, the actions of the western powers forced Finland to action that we did not want to take: calling for assistance from Hitler's Germany. Finland did request assistance from UK and USA, and that was not given, since USA wanted to join forces with Communism.

Actually, repeatedly during the war USA exhorted Finland to surrender to Soviet Union.

Later, of course, USA turned around and decided to hate communism. Too late to help Finland; we lost a significant portion of the land to Soviet Union, and it was a close call that we were not annexed or made into another satellite state.
docorion From: docorion Date: February 7th, 2004 11:52 am (UTC) (Link)


All true. I am only saying that the leaders of the Western powers were reflections of the *people* of the Western powers. The people of America, in that time, would gladly have seen all of the 'squabbling Europeans' sink into their own dung, and not cared a whit, except that there would be fewer places of culture to visit on vacation for the upper classes. Most Americans did not like Europe or Europeans, much, unless they had recently come from Europe.

There are enough failures of western democracy during that time to fill several books. The only reason we look as good as we do is the foil of real evil we were fighting. Finland's pain is only one of many failures to act that America could be called to answer for in that period of history. And there are some sins of commission we could probably be held accountable for by history, as well. As well, there were instances of true leadership and true heroism; the whole is, like most of history IMHO, a patchwork of good and bad actions and consequences all around. And I think on the whole Ameirca acted as well as you might have expected, or perhaps a bit better. I admit we came late to the party, but we brought alot of presents.
juuro From: juuro Date: February 7th, 2004 01:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
Without American involvement in post-war Europe, the situation today would be orders of magnitude worse. No doubt there.
8 comments or Leave a comment