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Lawyers trying to sneak "super-trademarks" into NDAs

Posted on 2007.05.03 at 15:14
Current Location: Terminal B, Salt Lake International Airport, Utah
Tags: , , , , , ,
Currently on Slashdot there is a story titled Google's evil NDA. One of the things mentioned is that it "forbids you to 'mention or imply the name of Google' in public ever again.".

Amazon has the same problem. I've signed an NDA with Amazon A2Z, and I deleted that particular paragraph before I signed it, because I thought it was stupid and pointless, and had nothing to do with protecting AZN/A2Z's trade and tech secrets. They accepted that without complaint.

But recently I've been asked to sign another agreement with Amazon, concerning the selling them the work of the white paper that I'm writing about adding AWS auth to libcurl. It had the same stupid paragraph, and I struck it again, and this time their laywers noticed and rejected my change. We're at an impasse.

I'm sure that Google and Amazon are not the only companies with this particular piece of standard stupidity written into their NDAs and their work contracts.


  • "Oh, that's just boilerplate" is a stupid thing to say, and I will call it out as stupid. Boilerplate is part of the contract.
  • "We don't enforce that" is also a stupid thing to say. If you don't enforce it, don't put it in the contract!
  • "The lawyers require it" is also a stupid thing to say, and I will call it out as stupid. Lawyers are to do what they are told, not the other way around.
  • "It protects our trade secrets" is a doubly stupid thing to say, and I will call it out as stupid. TRADEMARKS ARE NOT TRADE SECRETS, and trying to conflate them is is a lie, and a damn lie.


Trademarks have plenty of existing protection in statute, precident, and treaty. Trying to turn trademark protection into something that it isn't, is, at risk of repeating myself, stupid, a lie, and evil.


Always read the contract. Read your NDAs. Read your work contracts. And don't let big stupid companies try to grab more than they should.

Comments:


Gabriel
[info]niac at 2007-05-03 23:03 (UTC) (Link)
Always have, always will. I bring a pen to offer-signing days and such.
tugger
[info]tugger at 2007-05-03 23:08 (UTC) (Link)
Mark the day.

On this, we are in full agreement.
chris neitzert
[info]ckn at 2007-05-04 00:00 (UTC) (Link)
you may not be in the position to make such a move; but when this sort of tripe has been presented and my changes and redactions rejected I tell them 'take it or leave it', and more than once i've walked from this sort of situation....
[info]neocuriosity at 2007-05-04 04:40 (UTC) (Link)
I'm sorry you're having such trouble with Amazon. I completely understand where you're coming from and agree with your position.

However. In this instance, I think that you need them more than they need you. Were I to counsel you, I would say 'take the contract'. I would also say that maybe bending now so that you don't break will make you more powerful and perhaps someday you'll be in a position to force the issue, but that day is not today.

Are you back in Seattle yet?
alienor77310
[info]alienor77310 at 2007-05-04 07:16 (UTC) (Link)
*snort* It's been 12 years, so I can say "IBM" again. And it was just a translation job...
madhobbit
[info]madhobbit at 2007-05-05 02:45 (UTC) (Link)
is a bit of overreacting, methinks. The language sez: "...issue or release any articles, advertising, publicity, or other matter..."

It's poorly drafted. In reading it, I infer intent that it is referring to for profit articles, "professional" type activities. I don't read it as meaning "you can't tell your friends that you interviewed." Of course, it does mean you can't share proprietary information you may have received.

I would tell my clients to ask the question "what exactly do you intend this to keep me from doing?" make them clear up the "other matter" language, and in what contexts they don't want you to mention their name. Then put that language in.

Never assume that just 'cuz someone has a law degree, they know how to write contracts that make sense. I had to go to a special 2 day seminar to re-learn how to write like a human being. :)
[info]mysqldba at 2007-05-10 16:39 (UTC) (Link)

yup: don't sign it if you don't like it

Hey Mark, how are you man.

I didn't know about Amazon doing the same stuff. That's an insane and evil NDA. I am proud of you for taking that part out from your first agreement. People who just sign stuff without reading it through are doing a great disservice to themselves.

And, I couldn't agree more with the stupid explanations of companies that you point out.

Frank
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